253: How to Maintain Consistent and Terrific Customer Support - with Daniel Viduya

We talk a lot about growth on this show. But something that's often overlooked is one of the most important impacts on growth. And that's your customer support and the experience you create for your customers after the sale. And I think it's really interesting because a lot of times our focus on them and how we take care of them happens a lot on the sales side. But once they sign up, we kind of pull back a little bit, we don't quite give them the same level of support. And the same experience. Fortunately, Daniel Viduya is here. He's from SupportZebra, and they're doing great things and making sure that that support experience is fantastic. He lays out a bunch of the things we should be thinking about a bunch of the metrics we should be focusing on for our customers, and how to set up your support team to make sure that they are fantastic, so that that level of experience stays consistent all the way through, check it out.

Welcome to Scale Your SaaS, the podcast that gives you proven techniques and formulas for boosting your revenue and achieving your dream exit brought to you by a guy who's done just that multiple times. Here's your host, Matt Wolach,

and welcome to Scale Your SaaS. I am super excited to have you here. Thank you very much for coming. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Make sure you're subscribe to the show. You don't want to miss out on any of the cool guests that we have coming up some great help for getting you to scale your company. By the way, if you liked the show, we're looking for reviews, please go review it whatever platform you're using, whether it's Apple or Spotify or any of the others, definitely go review the show that will help us get the word out and let me know. Are we actually helping you the way that you need? So please go put that in there. I'm super excited for today's episode. I'm here with Daniel Viduya. Daniel, how you doing?

I am doing fantastic. Thank you so much for having me today, Matt.

Absolutely, absolutely. I'm glad to have you here. And let me make sure everybody knows who you are Daniel. So Daniel, he's the vice president of growth at SupportZebra, and what they're doing. They have a headquarters in Houston, Texas, and they have a no nonsense management style cutting edge call center paradigm that focuses into sales and marketing, customer support and technical support. So we're going to talk a bit about outsourcing and when to do it, why to do it, and why not to do a lot of those things. Daniel is the expert at it. In fact, he has specialties in high level relationships, Client Services, operations and team management, coaching, accountability, lots of things. You name it. So Daniel, once again, thanks for coming on the show.

Thank you for having me. Again, Matt. And that was mouthful right there. But I'm happy to share more of my knowledge.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So you're First things first, tell me what's going on with you guys lately. And

what's coming up? Yes, support Zebra is entering in its into its 12th anniversary next month in February. So we have been around for 12 years. So that is exciting. Apart from that we have just crossed the 1200 employee mark. So we are homegrown DPO. And so we started just from a small team of Filipina members. And then we started growing and growing and growing. And 12 years down the line. We are self sustaining. We have grown more than 1000. We have recently opened a another floor in one providence in our office in the Philippines and so many exciting things coming for sure. And that's why I'm also traveling right now I'm actually in the Philippines. It's two o'clock in the morning as we speak right now. And so it's because I'm visiting our office and just I'm enjoying our time with the team.

That's so cool. It's fun to see it grow over that time. And by the way, thanks for staying up super late with us. That's super.

It's time here. It's normal for me, we work in a graveyard shift. And so I work in us hours. And so this is normal for me.

Okay, well, no worries. Still Glad to have you here. Yeah, I want to talk to you about that growth. I mean, did you ever see it getting this big?

You know, I've not been around for as long as are some of our team members have been, but getting the feedback from our team members, they never thought that this would happen. I mean, being homegrown, you would think that you know, this is something that would be slow. This is something that might not succeed as a startup, they did not know what was going to happen. But when they see where they are now versus where they were before and what they've shared and what has been achieved. It wasn't a surprise, you know, for some that wow, we have done this. But it was not a kind of a surprise that that came with doubt. But it was a positive surprise that look out of our hard work and effort who knew that the doubts that we had before and the worries that we had before would actually simply go away and now that we kind of think of it we just laugh about it because what did we have to worry in the beginning when we knew that our hard work would actually pay off? And so it was not a surprise to many but rather it was a I think it was a pat on the back end. And you know, just wiping the sweat off your forehead.

Good point. And it's so fun when when you know that hard work and persistence and vision. When you put those together, they can do some great things.

Absolutely, absolutely. And there's more detail to that that we could dive in. In for sure later, I have some bits and pieces that I'd love to share with you.

Okay, cool, cool. I'm excited for that. But tell me, you know, what exactly is support zebra doing and who you guys helping?

Yes, support Zebra is an outsourcing company that helps e comm and software as a service clients with their customer support, technical support, back office support processing, anything that he thinks that could be outsourced, that is time consuming, costly, and just labor as they get outsourced that to us and we do the legwork for them as what it is, that's who we are. But what sets us apart is little bit more on the side of how we do our job. So we don't just do the job that he tells to do. But we take that a mile further by also improving the job that he gives to us. And we find ways to improve your processes your business by creating playbooks by forging a strong partnership, that would really increase your investment with us, but also just improving the business overall. And that's why we don't call her customers clients, we actually call them service partners, because that's how critical we take their business with us. We take that as our own, consider that as our own. And we try to give more than what they're just asking for.

Gotcha. Okay, I love that. It's such a good, good philosophy to have. I want to know, if you're a business leader, when should you start thinking about outsourcing? When should you say okay, maybe we should look into this?

Yeah, it's a it's a question that that's not new to me. And so the signs to outsource comes when you start struggling with scalability, number one, but number two is under that scalability is consistency. So why do I say consistency? I think that that's the most important factor to consider here. Because as a business leader, the size the scale has, team has company the support that they have, normally, when they start with a small team, that knowledge is internalized. And so when that knowledge is internalized, with just a few people, you get to develop this star, you know, this, this group of stars and, and people that are actually very good with your product. But there's one problem here, when you start hiring new people, maybe internally onshore or offshore. The problem is the consistency piece, the knowledge that was imparted to your first batch of team members of customer support team members that were stars is not really part to the other new people equally, or there may be conflicting information, there may be different ways of how they teach the product. And so the consistency becomes a problem. And when you try to scale your business, because your customer base is growing, when your LTV is already increasing, and your revenues increasing. When that consistency is compromised, then you see a potential problem for churn for lack of consistency, or perhaps bad feedback for the for lack of consistency, it just all comes into place. And so when you see that problem popping up, and that's where outsourcing can be the right solution for you. Number two is when you start scaling your team, the cost comes with it. When you have two people, two people who handle your customer support, it's not as costly because there's a knowledge theatres, there's the personal one on one there. But then what if you need 10? People? What if you need 15? People? What if you need 20? People? How will you train them? How will you manage them? How will you track their performance? How would you extend support with ancillary services like WFM, like workforce management, quality, HR services, so the all of these things, you need to allocate time and money for them as well. And when that becomes a problem for you, that's when it is also a sign for you to start outsourcing this. Because outsourcing companies would have dedicated teams that would be able to support that growing team that actually have

a lot of it. That's such great information. And if you're looking for, you know, an outsourcing partner, how should somebody determine which one might be best for them? What type of thing should they look for?

Yes, um, honestly, the number one factor that you should look for any service partner is the capability to be able to do the job well. And that's hard to define. It's very subjective. So allow me to dive in further what that looks like. I'm going back to the scene earlier. And so I'm not saying that support severs only supports you, but with the way that we do, but when you find a service partner, you have to find out how, how far are they willing to take the job that you're going to be going to be given to them? Are they simply going to do the job that you've asked them to do? And that's it, they call it a day? Are they willing to throw in more support and services that would be able to improve the job? Do they have any proven success and track record with client relationships. That's number one, it's just simply how they do the job. But number two is also in the flexibility in their contract terms, a lot of the BPOS, and businesses that I've spoken to that I've been with work myself have very strict contract terms, you may need to start with a huge number of people, you may need to start with a long term contract, such as annual contracts, you need to start with a six month down payment, you need to find a service partner that has flexible contract terms, that works for you and your business. Don't restrict yourself to a large contract, when he know that there's just a risk that he can't commit to that just yet. So finding that right service partner, the contract, flexibility is also another one. But number three is in terms of culture, it just plays a big role in your company, too. You need to find a service partner and an outsourcing company that fits your culture, your vision, your your your principles, and values, whatever we say that many of the companies that I'm speaking to right now that I've spoken to have this, you know, it's a, I've lost the term it's it's something about a type B, culture, beets, it has something to do with corporate social responsibility, and the capability to have their integrity and their and their giving back to the community in place. If you're after for that certification, if you're after for that type of culture, need to find a service partner that is able to prove that. Otherwise, it just puts your certificate your own certification at risk. So I've seen that with some companies, but also value wise, just culture wise, or you look for a company that has integrity in place, or look for a company that also has humility in their place, you know, these are just some of the things that are really crucial to you, when you start working with a service partner that is contradicting your personal and moral values, you're going to find it hard to sustain that relationship down the line. So that these are just some of the things that you need to find in a service partner, that would really help you forge that relationship. I think those are the three things that I encourage our listeners to start looking for when they start, you know, when they want to start outsourcing.

That's great. That's some really good stuff. So I want to talk about customer service, customer support. How can customer support and customer resolution, whether it's good or bad impacts sales and growth?

It's how can I start this definition? If there's a direct impact here, it's all I could say there's a direct impact is a simple answer. I'm not sure if you've read this book Ready. Matt? Have you heard of the ultimate question to play? No, no, it's written by Fred Reichheld. It's a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful book. The ultimate question is simply linked to fps, you know, how likely is my customer, when to refer a friend or colleague or someone he knows to my company to my brand. That in itself tells you how the way you treat your customers would impact your growth. And it's so funny because we spend a lot of money, trying to grow our marketing efforts so that we could grow our revenue when in fact, there's just free marketing right there. When you treat your customers, right, growth will come naturally. When you treat your customers well, their lifetime value increases when you treat them like VIPs and more over the bring in more business, when you give them an authentic and great customer experience. That's how customer experience has a direct impact with your revenue and sales, treat them right. And it just flows right in.

I love it. So true. It's really, really good information. So if we're measuring customer support or customer resolution performance, you we talked about NPS, but are there other metrics that can really create an accurate picture of performance?

Yes, there are lead measures and lag measures, but I really encourage our listeners or audience, you know, for them to focus on different types of customer metrics that measure the customer's temperament to measure their, their opinions and their thoughts about your business. And so it could be MPs, it could be CSAT. It could be voice at a customer, whichever it may be. But there are other metrics that could tell us the efficiencies that our team members are exerting to be able to leave them to that, which is number one, we could talk about average handling time. How efficient are they in handling the customers when they say when they say that when they get to you on the phone or on the chat? How efficient were you? How effective were you with their time? Because if there's one thing that I personally, you and I both Mac could probably relate to this and same with our listeners is that look, something has been broken, something has been fixed. You could compensate me with $1,000 but if I just lost 12 days trying to resolve this, that's just a significant amount of time that I've spent trying to fight this right. You can by many things, you could buy jewelry, you could buy the most expensive car, but he could never buy back time a time is that piece of treasure that is that has no value or rather cannot be bought. So handling your time your time efficiency and handling something is very important. Number two metric that I highly encourage for them to check here is also the volume and the wait time, this is something that is not discussed normally there many of them would say why not go for quality might not go for you know this and that. But we time is actually very important. How long have your customer has been waiting on the phone for them to be able to get help? An example would be I'm a fan of this airline that I normally fly with. I love them. They have great food, great service, great seats, great. Everything's there on time and everything. There's one problem that I have with them is when I call them, I need to wait on the phone two hours to be able to get help two hours, and I'm left with no choice. But because I love them so much. It's it's just that it's that. And so every time that I booked a ticket, I have my doubts and reconsiderations like should I be? Should I be flying with him again? Or should I be flying with another airline? It's the same with your customers, right? How long have they waited to get this fixed? They're gonna probably reconsider as they renew their contract with your when they when they pay the bills, like should I be paying this again next month and expect that I you know, it's that so wait time is actually a metric that you need to consider as a as a as a factor on how you could get great customer experience because some customers, they just come in pissed when they enter you because it's not your fault. It's simply because they've been waiting for too long. That's, that's number two. The number three tangible metric that you should also be looking for is first call first chat first email resolution, simply the resolution, have you given a band aid resolution, or have you given a resolution that they are truly looking for? Many times I have been disappointed with Band Aid resolutions as a consumer. And that did not end well with me more with the provider that I've chosen to go with before. Van need solutions never work Band Aid solutions cause your for your customers to call back email chat again, and they come more upset every single time. When that happens. It just diminishes the entire experience and cost as a possible turn. These are the three main metrics that I consider most important apart from NPS or CSAT. You have to focus on these metrics and they can be measured, they can truly be measured. HDX can be measured by the systems that you're using. The wait time can be measured by forecasting and workforce management. And finally, first call resolution first chat email resolution can be measured by the systems you're also using. Define a standard of how long you don't want them to call or go go back to you and see how that turns out. So these are the three main metrics that I think you should start measuring that can help you define and change your customer experience.

Yeah, that's good. I'm super grateful that you laid it out. And I totally agree. What tips would you have for anybody in the software game or software leaders on how to run their their support team? Or, you know, even if it's internal or external, outsourced? You know, what tips can you give for making sure you deliver that consistency that you talked about earlier on?

Great question. With the software industry and with a software lead leaders that I've spoken to before, um a lot of them expressed a common sentiment that the dimension the it starts going down after the sale as opposed to problem and how why does that happen? It normally happens because when they started buying the software when they were sold the software to begin with. It was all shining shimmering, splendid, it was all with rainbow sprinkles. So you know it was presented to you in a nice real nicely wrapped box. When you open the box. It's like boom, I'm not happy with it. Then comes the silence and all the shining shimmering, splendid words go away. That's when the problem really starts. When you develop a process that allows you to check in with your customer post sale, when you give them a white glove experience. Regardless of what their thoughts are about the product once they've received it or once they've used it, you can guarantee that he could still keep them for as long as you know how to fix it. That's the problem. Normally there is no follow through after the post then on the post sale stage. Normally there is silence on a post sale stage that makes them feel neglected. or at worst that makes them feel like they were bamboozled. And that's what they don't like. So when you're still there when you're holding their hand post say LM there's a problem, you could still keep them if you know how to fix the problem when you when you present yourself proactively. That's number one. Number two is with a consistency of experience comes the, the guarantee, is there a guarantee that what you've given to them from the beginning, is actually working. So in short, is simply the integrity of the sale? Are you going to be honoring that guarantee? Are you going to be presenting yourself proactively about that guarantee, that's number two. And finally, this is a very touchy point, which many of the listeners might disagree with, or if they might also agree with, but in my experience, I've worked with many industries before I was also a customer service representative for a specific software before, but I was bound to by the rules and the, you know, the rules of the Congress, like you have to do this, you have to sustain this, if this is the policy, this is the policy. But as a brand leader, as as a leader, I highly encourage you to encourage your team members that if your customers do have a valid complaint, and even if they were bound by policy, you should ask yourself, Is this policy actually doing right by our customers. And the reason why I say this is that that actually affects your brand overall, some customers have raised out, you know, have raised a very valid point that they do have a problem with a product. See, for example, you know, the the the software that has been given to them was, was actually not working, even after a certain period of time. But then, you know, see, for example, you the bottle software, there's three month guarantee, on three and a half weeks, it no longer works, we're clearly it was not an error that they committed, but simply it was the software itself, should we not be giving them doing right by them by replacing that software, giving them a refund. Or if I may go in length here and say, like the cell phone, the cell phone right here, you know, the cell phone, that I'm not going to mention a name for ethical purposes, this cell phone, and this computer that I'm using says, Look, this computer should last you long, the reason why you should be investing money, this computers that we could do better, you know, this would outlive the other competing computer that he used to have. And one year down the line, I find out that the battery life is already diminishing, or that the software does is not compatible with Zoom. And I have to actually shell out a significant amount of money, just to be able to roll back to the other software and recover everything. And I call it luck. Is there any compensation I could get here? Is there any additional support? I could get here? No. Because you were not covered by this specific coverage, you can no longer get it. So is that right? Exactly. So was it right? By policy? Yes, they were bound to do that. But was it actually right? Right? That's the thing. So even if they are bound by policy, consider yourselves to give great customer experience. Are you doing right by your customers by binding yourself to this policy? By binding yourself to this policy? If not, you might want to revisit that. Or you might want to negotiate with your customers. That's just my advice.

I love it. I think it's great advice. I hope everybody out there takes it wholeheartedly. This has been fun at the time has just flown by I've just been soaking up everything you've been saying, Daniel, I want to make sure everybody gets to know you and support zebra. So how best can they learn more?

They can reach out to me through LinkedIn, I'm available through LinkedIn, you could find me down the NVIDIA or the I could also go ahead and give a link where they could meet me and they don't necessarily have to sign up for support zebra, if you just have any questions, any burning concerns that you know talk about their brand, I'm happy to give that advice. It doesn't have to be a sale every single time. So I hereby promise that I'm not going to be a hard seller because that's not who I am. But simply if you want to learn more about support zebra if you want to learn more about our secrets about what do we do? And how do we make it work? Happy to give that information to you? Should you want to take this internally? Should you want to apply this and solve your own problems. Happy to share everything that I know.

Okay, perfect. And we'll make sure to put those links into the description down below in the show notes. So Well Daniel, thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been great.

This has been great to Matt, thank you so much. I just wanted to leave this saying and you know, like philosophy to everyone here. As you run your business. Remember that humility and equality just rows it all in together when you treat your customers like humans, when you treat your team members like humans, when you humble yourself, everything will just come through all together. And when you do right by your customers, everything will just come through all together. When you agree give great customer experiences to your customers. Your revenue will simply grow naturally. So that is all for me. Thank you for having me today, Matt. I really appreciate it.

You're welcome. It was great having you here. and everybody else out there. Thank you very much for being here. Hope you enjoyed the show. Make sure you're subscribed hit that subscribe button. That way you're not gonna miss out on any other leaders like Daniel sharing their experiences and their wisdom with you. So hit that and then we will see you next time. Take care.

Thanks for listening to Scale Your SaaS for more help on finding great leads and closing more deals. Go to Mattwolach.com