254: How to Differentiate from the Competition - with Ton Dobbe

One of the things that most software companies face is that there's a lot of other software companies in their space, a lot of other competitors saying they're doing the same thing saying they are awesome saying they do the same do that you might know that you're better, but the market doesn't. And so the real challenge is how do we differentiate? How do we separate ourselves from that competition to say they do stuff and they have all this awesome stuff on their website? They have great blogs, and they have all this, how do we differentiate so that the market can see where we are and can see that we are the one that's for them, unfortunately, I'd Tandava he came in to share exactly how to do in fact, he's the author of the book, the remarkable effect, and he breaks down exactly how to do it so you can separate so you can start to get more wins, because of the way you're positioning versus your competition. Check this one out.

Welcome to Scale Your SaaS, the podcast that gives you proven techniques and formulas for boosting your revenue and achieving your dream exit brought to you by a guy who's done just that multiple times. Here's your host, Matt Wolach.

Hey, welcome to the show. Super excited to have you here. Thank you very much for being here. I am Matt, I'm your host. And my goal is to help you grow and scale your company close more deals doing it now. I'm really excited for today's show, because I'm talking to another person who helps people grow, who helps people get everything that they need from their companies. I with Tom Dobbe. Tom, how you doing today?

Very good. Thank you.

Hi, yeah, for sure. Let me I love this guy. So cool. And he does some great things for everybody out there. So Tom, let me know. Let me just make sure everybody knows who you are. Exactly. So Todd is the chief inspiration officer and founder at Value Inspiration. Really, he helps position b2b SaaS scale ups for predictable traction, which is really, really important. He's been immersed in the b2b software space for close to 30 years, and has always been fascinated by product marketing, product strategy and all this stuff. Fun stuff. That's next. He's also the author of the book, the remarkable effect a great book that a lot of people have used very successfully. So once again, Tom, thanks for coming on the show. It's a pleasure. Absolutely, I know, honors mine for sure. So just tell me what, what's going on with you lately? And what's coming up?

Oh, got a couple of minutes. Yeah, sup lately? The question. A lot of I mean, a lot of what I've been doing, and what I've been working on to what the last the last five years is to really optimize my framework, like you already said in the introduction, to help b2b SaaS companies achieve predictable traction. And I mean, I've been, when I started my company, I came from a large organization called Unit Four, I've always been in the enterprise resource planning space. When I left Unit Four, I decided I didn't want to work for another large company anymore. But I wanted to help those organizations that struggle with the same things that I struggled with many, many years ago. And that is, you know, this whole thing of, we're the best thing since sliced bread. Nobody knows us. And it's almost unfair to compete in this in this world. That's all fair and true, and so on, but not necessary. And then what I got for what got me going, was the statistics and statistic that nine out of 10 startups fail. Sometimes it's 99, out of 100, depending on like what type of research you read. What fascinated me even more was that 75% of scaleups fail companies that have product market fit that have done that got traction, still, you know, things that go wrong and not necessary. So that's what I started to tune things. And I've been in the space of a positioning and reasonable kind of new tuning down segmentation. And over and over again, you talk about the problems, these organizations fail. And you realize that there's this one thing that bubbles up every time again, it's like, okay, traction is there. But it's not predictable, something is wrong. And once you get it predictable, and you can get this flywheel going now, then things start to kind of move the right way. So that's where my book comes in. remarkable effects, because that's about the 10 traits that define what I call remarkable. So for companies, remarkable SAS companies. And it's really about you know, what are these guys do different and it's the small things at the end that's make that we start talking about these companies, and we keep talking about them because that is a very important thing as well, you know, everybody can get their their bump. But I mean, I just came from a call with another CEO and he said, you know, Oh, that we had some traction, and then it fell again. And then we got it again. And it fell again. And that's, of course, the hard thing. Because everything is just, there's all moving parts that fascinates me. And I'm tuning my portfolio constantly in order to, you know, to optimize for that, so that I can actually start to deliver guarantees in this in this respect. And that is something that keeps me energized and on my feet. And in the meantime, in the back of it, I'm writing my second book. So Oh,

very exciting. So you got a lot going on today.

Yeah, keep busy. You know, there's, like I said, it's almost like a movement or a mission that I'm on. And yeah, there's, you can, I mean, how many times how many years have we dealt with entrepreneurship. And still, we make the same mistakes. It's, so it's keeping people on their feet with, for example, my daily email, a daily tip about one thing that you can do to avoid those mistakes, I think you did the same thing. You know, we follow each other on LinkedIn. And we commented on each other's posts. And there's, there's so many difficulty small things that people all agree with, just not realize that they make mistakes.

It's hard sometimes when you're in the moment to see it. That's why I think it's so great to have a coach for people to work with you. And I and I even have a coach, I think it's so important because sometimes when you're in that, you know, world just kind of really focused on what you're doing and your team's doing. You forget to think about some of the big picture and some of the best practices that you should be doing. Even if you know them, you don't truly operate them yourself, do you?

too. There's bias kicking in, there's sometimes complacency kicking in, we're doing great, you know, don't don't tell me that I'm doing anything wrong, because we're not doing anything wrong. And still you do. I mean, I'm running a mastermind. It's amazing, every single week, there's something coming up, whereby one of them say, I didn't even realize I made that mistake. You know, sometimes we have the hot seat. And the people that are not, that are in the hot seat, get a lot of value. But the people around it, you know, that are actually challenging, and helping the other person see the things they don't see anymore, they get even more out of it. Because then you start to realize, wait a minute, I'm actually making all these mistakes myself. And it's, it's yeah, getting out of your zone. I think that is a very important thing, kind of develop a network of peers around you, that are not connected to your problem. Because a lot of organizations, a lot of CEOs, when I, for example, interviewed him on my podcast, they say, you know, but but I have investors, and I have advisors and I have a board. But these people are all having a vested interest in your company. And our bias as a consequence, immediately.

It's crazy how that happens. I want to talk about your book, The remarkable fact you talked about 10 different factors. What are some of those? What What can people take away from that?

Yeah, well, people have asked Why did you why did you write a book in the first place? Because there are so many books written about, you know, how to how do you start? And how do you create a solid business. Still, I decided to do it and bring it all together just for also to get my ducks in a row for myself. There's 10 traits. The first one is remarkable. So for companies acknowledge that they cannot please everyone. And I think that's where a lot of people think that they are doing the right thing. You know, we are highly focused on ICP. It's a company of 500 people to 5000 people in this industry in that country. Well, that's really, really broad, you know? And they think they can please everybody in that segment, well, it's very, they're fishing. But out of the out of that segment, there's still 90% of don't ever buy from them. So it's a very costly exercise. So that's one second thing is remarkable. So for companies create something valuable, and desirable, and it's the combination of the two that is really important. Because something valuable is of course, that's the Holy Grail. And you know, that's what you'll aim for. But how do you make a desirable? That's a good, cool thing. And then the third one, in that in that first group is the aim to be different, not just better. And I see. So I mean, open the website. I mean, I do work for my customers. And within that I do customer service, competitive assessments. I do these assessments on the website of competitors that these companies are facing nine out of 10 again, are only talking about themselves, and that they are deleted. Recently I had I analyzed 11 vendors in the marketing automation space, nine word a leader. How cool is that? Yeah. And like No, no where the real leader and I mean, the world couldn't care less If you're gonna lead, I think the way you kind of come across as the leader is when you speak the language of your customers, when you hit the right nerve, when you pay attention when you show empathy, and it's about them rather than you, that's where people say, wait a minute, now, pay attention. That's that is that is one angle of it. And these are three, I've divided my book into three chapters, or three, three parts. The first part is about what I call the value foundation. Second part is about the viability foundation or develop viability lever. So how do you create a very viable company in how do you stay where you like, stay on? Keep the flywheel going. And the last one is the volume lever is all about creating momentum and these type of things. I mean, I've I've highlighted three, when we go on.

Yeah, no, I mean, I love that so far, I just want to jump in, because I feel like differentiation is so important. And right now, if you went to look like so just Google CRM, and they all look the same, they all sound the same, they're all saying the same thing. They all do this, they'll do that. And it's very difficult for a buyer to try and figure out what's right for them. And so differentiation is key. And I talk about this a lot with my clients and make sure that they understand how to differentiate how to separate from the herd, because that's really what this is all about is the buyer is just trying to figure out, which is the one that's right for them. And if they think that they're all the same, then they could go anywhere, and you have no control, you have no say over that scary, much better to make sure that you differentiate, make sure you separate and they identify you as someone who this is an organization slash person slash tool product that can help us and get us to where we're going to, and the others will not. Yeah, and I think that's really critical.

That's all about positioning, right. I mean, I like the word positioning, but it's very poorly understood. I mean, what I always kind of stress is it's about taking position. The moment is you take position, it's, it's, it gets really clear what you say yes to and what you say no to. And that is something that's super scary for organizations. Yeah, but if you don't do it, kind of the problem there is that it will be done for you, it will be done by the customer that thinks Oh, you like them? Or buy a competition? Who say, you know, they can just kind of played with you and put you in a corner where they want you want to have you. So yeah, I would say take it or, or otherwise they'll be taking from you.

Yeah, I think that's pretty amazing. You obviously don't want your buyer to position you in their in their head the way that maybe you don't want them to and you definitely don't want the competitor to do it. So it's up to you to take the reins and and do that. So you mentioned that you you know, that was part one, what are some of the other things from the book that people can learn?

Well, the second part of the first part, like I said, is about the value foundation, it's the the fundamentals of the business, who you're for who you're not for is the segmentation side, creating something valuable and desirable, to get the flywheel going and then be different than not know better. Second part is about viability. And that's where things like the kind of the fourth trait in my book, I'm talking about remarkable organizations, master the art of curiosity, not only by the founders, but everybody in the company, and they create a culture of a buy. They encourage people to be curious and to ask those questions and to dig deeper, to come up with the opportunities that are out there in the marketplace. Talk to customers that that's where, where that secret heights. So I mean, I just I'm just finishing a podcast with Christian Christian Oh, and CEO of Pebble. And IT organization is a couple of 100 people right now. And the way he is scaled to this, what he calls to do is to holistic mission principles, which is about two things, we do it for you, and we want to be the most helpful business in SAS. And those two very simple rules allow everybody in the company to make the right decisions, but also to be curious in the right way. And that is super powerful thing without curiosity that it will start but it will die very, very soon. Second thing that is in that in that viability game is that remarkable software companies create new value possibilities. And that again, goes back a little bit like the differentiation and the better part. But what I tried to do is to is to take a stance back and create something with a new pair of eyes and So how would we do this, if we would start with a blank sheet of paper, rather than, yeah, pick something up and make it just a couple of percentage better, because better at the end is so hard to, to see and to to grasp by user, but a different way of going about it. And then what's really important, created shift in value. And in my book, I'm talking making the analogy with big wave surfing a lot. Because it's in the book, I'm talking about the toilet, I made actually to two plays in Portugal, which are relatively close to where I live to a place called Nazare. But it to create an epic way behind you and to get people to move. Even if your solution is sort of 2030 40% better than what they already have. It's really, really tough for organizations to move, especially in the enterprise, SAS space, because there's so many risks involved. So it needs to be really about new value possibilities. That's that's the second one. In that in that group. The third one is they focus on the essence. What words like focus come up? But more importantly, I guess, is that I really drill down into like, what is the real problem we're trying to solve here? I've had so many conversations with customers of mine, about what are the what is the business you really it? You know, what is the business you really are? I mean, I came from the ERP world, I always thought we were an enterprise software player, an ERP software player. But it wasn't because of the case, that was just a corner that we that we were put in by the likes of Gartner, Forrester, IDC, you know, customer couldn't care less, we were in a completely different business for them, which is about solving problems. And I think once you start to understand that, and you focus on what is the essence of the business, then, even if you, for example, today are an ERP player, when the dynamics kick in, it doesn't corner you to stick there. But you have the freedom to say, hey, wait a minute, let's move a little bit to the side and solve the problem in a different way. And we've become something else. And that is giving a little bit of freedom, I would say. But very tough for for management to, to, to get our head around. And the last one is. And now I have to think myself. I got a I got my I wrote my own book, and I can't find

the that happens to me all the time.

Of course, the most important one, create facts, not just customers. Almost like a no brainer. But so hard to do you know, how many companies have fantastic customers still don't make it. And that starts again, with the first rate. If you segment wrong, you will get customers you know, sales cycles, often it'll take a little longer, when rates will be a little lower. You have to give a little bit more discount, but you will get customers the problem with those customers that are not your perfect fit. Is that just bring the whole company down? They start asking for, for things and keep your r&d organization super busy. Yeah,

we're sanics wrong stuff.

Extra wrong stuff. Exactly. Yeah, r&d department is like, okay, we're doing our best and we're going to build in the next release. And they don't even say thank you. You know, it is almost like, Where have you been? This? Should have been there from the from the first beginning. Yeah, but they were the wrong to get to get to become a customer in the first place. So one of the questions I there's one of the prompts that I use it, a lot of them are in my workshop is if you look at your, your customer base, with an honest mindset, which of your customers shouldn't be way better off with your direct competitor than name them? You know? If you start looking at that, honestly, it's it's revealing. So it's not about you know, we have to close a lot of organizations, especially in the enterprise software space, they, when you ask them, how many deals do you need to have this year to make a fantastic year, numbers come up like 3050. So it's not the world. So why not look out there for the best 55 and close 5500 leads and just find the best ones? Exactly. And that comes down to segmentation. It comes down to kind of getting all of those things right from the start of foundation. Because then when you understand these people in the right way, you speak their language you can build specifically for what these people love. That turns them into fans. They'll buy more from you buy more often from you, and they bring their bodies. So that's a really important point there. Let me stop.

I love that I'm soaking up so much. I hope everybody out there is taking it all in on one Gonna leave some to the imagination. And we're also getting low on time. But definitely check out the book The remarkable effect. What I do want to ask you, Tom, before we run out of time is, what advice would you give to early stage software leaders, software founders who are just getting going and kind of starting to see some initial traction? What advice can you give so that they don't hit that plateau, they don't get stuck. And they can keep moving forward.

I mean, the first is always get get the foundation, right? Once you get the foundation, right, all the other things become so much easier. So get really, really clear and honest about who you're really for. And who you're not really for. You know, sometimes it's easier to say, we're not for those, we're not for those, we're not for those, but go and pick them not, in the obvious way, like way out of your segmentation, within the current market that you're that you think you are for, kind of try to describe the ones where it's an it's actually a no go. And you know it, that's the case already so much clarity, is really rather a long form blog recently on it, and I'm talking about, it's almost like creating your favorite cocktail. So imagine yourself on the beach, favorite cocktail, whatever it is Mojito, name, the names, what a lot of organizations do is they actually stopped with segmentation, where it's still a glass of water, it's this empty, big bucket of cold stuff that no one really likes, it's just, it's, it's grateful for your thirst. But once you start to throw in the ingredients, you know, the line, the and the ingredients of the of the thing that make it your favorite, and you're talking about your or your customer in a different way, talk about the dynamics that keep them going, and that are important to them or actually threatening them. It's about what these people care about. It's about what what their values are all about. It's all on their website. It's what risks they tolerate, or don't tolerate, what they aspire, whatever I mean, all of these type of things, just throwing those ingredients, and it becomes something that is uniquely you. And from there, it's you can start to pick it on. And it's relevant. People think that, okay, but once we have defined it, it's forever. It's not forever, the market is dynamic. start closing nine out of 10 in that segment, and once once you dominated, which will take some time, go left and right. It's as simple as that. But it's a lot more fun and a lot, a lot easier to manage. A lot less costly. You get the loan a lot farther. We've had a lot of funding.

That's great, excellent advice. I hope everybody took it to heart for sure. Tom, this has been fantastic. I really appreciate you coming on sharing some insights from your book, sharing some insights from your experience. Where can people learn more about you and the remarkable effect?

Yeah, just go to the remarkable effect.com. And then you can download a copy of my book. If you want to reach out to me, go to LinkedIn. Find me Tom Dover. And you get to connect and start a conversation.

Perfect. And we'll put all those links into the show notes for everybody out there so you can get them though. All that fun stuff there and make sure you connect with tone. This has been awesome, Tom, thanks for coming on the show.

Thank you for having me.

Absolutely, and everybody else out there. Thank you for being here. Make sure you are subscribed to the show, hit that subscribe button right now. That way you're going to be notified of any new stuff that comes out. So other leaders, other creators, other guys like Tom are going to give you the best advice in the coming week. So make sure to hit that. Also, we're looking for reviews. So if you have a review if this was helpful, definitely go review the show that will help us so that other people can explore and find us. Thank you very much for being here. We'll see you next time. Take care. Bye bye.

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