265: How to Win Deals with a Webinar - with Melissa Kwan

Matt Wolach: 0:10

One of the best ways to get leads and get people closed is a webinar. Now it depends what your price point is on if it works for closing, or if it works for driving leads, but it's very important to understand how a webinar can impact your funnel I had Melissa Kwan on she's the CEO of eWebinars, they're doing some really cool stuff with an amazing tool that you definitely have to check out. But it's really important to understand how a webinar can fit within your entire marketing strategy. She goes through some tips goes through some cool tactics and how you can make it absolutely powerful for you definitely check this out.

Intro/ Outro: 0:44

Welcome to Scale Your SaaS, the podcast that gives you proven techniques and formulas for boosting your revenue and achieving your dream exit brought to you by a guy who's done just that multiple times. Here's your host, Matt Wolach.

Matt Wolach: 1:00

Hello, welcome to Scale Your SaaS, thank you very much for being here. So glad that you are here to focus on growing your business. And that's what we're going to do. We want to show you how to grow your software company, whether it's better marketing, whether it's better sales, understanding how to grow your team, that's what we're focused on. And today, we're focused on webinars. I am so excited to have Melissa Kwan with us. She is joining live from Amsterdam, a city that she is loving partying, and she just told me beforehand, I love that it's so cool. But let me tell everybody who you are Melissa. So Melissa is the co founder and CEO of eWebinar three times a bootstrapper. She's now growing your webinar, which is the leading automated webinar solution that helps companies run hundreds of engaging webinars without being there live. It's really cool what they're doing and, and making it really easy for people to kind of get the word out more without having to put in more work. So what's going on with you lately? And what's coming up?

Melissa Kwan: 1:55

Yeah, okay. That's a that's a big question. What's going on lately? I feel like I'm I don't know, I feel like so this is my first product lead startup, my previous one was an enterprise. So actually, my background is in enterprise sales. And then coming into this one having to learn everything, but sales, but more marketing. You know, I've been doing this for four years now. It just everyday just feels new. Like it will so when someone asked me a question like that, it just always feels like we're starting. But you know, we're, you know, our products been around for two and a half years now. We're actually very close to profitability at this point as as we speak. So something that's exciting.

Matt Wolach: 2:34

Yeah, so cool. I love that that pivot point when you finally hit that, and you start really taking off? No, I love the fact that you said you're learning. And I think that's what it is about being an entrepreneur. That's one of the things I love about it. I've had several like you entrepreneurial journeys, and it's so cool, how much you learn each time you kind of feel like, Oh, I get it now. Oh, I understand this. And then also in here's a whole new thing. So I mean, to go from enterprise sales to product lead is a shift for sure. How has that shift been? For you?

Melissa Kwan: 3:02

It really interesting question, because I love that you brought that up, because I didn't know that was a shift. So we're talking about telling stories, right? Before we hit record, this is a story I was, you know, I was running my previous two companies, you know, both in real estate tech, completely different industry. But you know, one on one sales, lead founder led sales, large, only selling to large enterprises. And I came into this thinking, I've done it before, like, totally know what I'm doing. And this one's gonna be super easy. So then I came into this company, and just to give people context is the starting point of our product, the price starting point is 99 bucks. So I thought that I could build this company exactly how I built my previous companies. And, you know, while it started that way, like on like one on one outreach, and things like that, like very quickly, I probably within six to nine months of starting this company, I exhausted my immediate network and maybe like one degree removed. And then I'm like, Okay, well, now what, and I had to learn that at this price point of a product, not only does you know, sales lead not make sense, from a financial perspective, people don't get back to you because that's just not how they buy $100 product, why would they talk to a sales rep for $100 product and we just go to your site. And all of that was like a big revelation, very hard truth that I had to learn probably like a year into the product being live like we've only been live for two and a half years. So that was when I had to just do some research to see like, what are other companies that are you know, in our space doing and around the same price point and how can like, what do I need to do now to you know, to drive this business and these are all things that I've never done before like, the whole like posting on LinkedIn once a day like that was new, like building community building an audience, SEO content, different kinds of content, getting customer testimonials, like building on templates on our site, like all I was new. So it just feels like I'm always doing something but not enough.

Matt Wolach: 5:06

I totally understand. It's funny how the actions that we need to take are totally different because I've gone through that same process as well figuring out oh, what I did before, not working. And in fact, a lot of my clients come to me and say, Hey, Matt, how come this sales rep isn't doing well, for us, we hired them, because they had amazing experience at this and this, and I look at it, and it's a totally different type of sale, either the sales rep was doing big enterprise, and they're more of a small medium, or vice versa. It's like you hire somebody who has a completely different skill set than what you actually need. There's the same thing with us as the leaders, right? We, we've kind of grown into what we need. And now we need something different with a new company and a new target new market. So I love that you went through that. But I want to understand, why is a webinar a great part of a of a funnel for a software company? Why is that something that people should consider?

Melissa Kwan: 5:58

Because nobody wants to talk to salespeople anymore?

Matt Wolach: 6:02

I would think at certain price points.

Melissa Kwan: 6:03

Like I mean, yeah, it's definitely a price point thing, right? I think, you know, if you're selling bigger contracts, like you want to know, there's a person on the other side, and you know, that when you're buying something, there's probably a bit of like customer requirements, you know, like whether it's an SSL or connecting to your database, like something that I want someone there understanding those requirements, but mostly when people are doing, you know, research on, you know, products that are cheaper, like lower price point, they don't want to talk to a salesperson, I want to do research on my own until I'm ready to buy, then maybe I want to know that there's someone on the other side. So the best way to give someone who's a buyer who's researching the information that they need to make a decision is to get them in a demo. But if I want to request a demo, and your product, lead sales company, and I have to fill an account, I have to fill in a form and then I get a calendar link to book a time. That's no longer product lead, right? That's more sales lead. But you're also you know, taking a lot of your time doing demos for people that aren't going to buy as well. So like when I say webinar, or when we say webinar in this context, it's also like doing one on one demos, it doesn't have to be one too many, sometimes it's one to one. But it's, you know, a digital presentation. So I actually think a webinar, like a self serve demo is the like the number one asset that you can leverage to get people kind of top of funnel, and then move them down that funnel, whether it's, you know, sign up on your own, if it's $100 product, or book a call with my sales team.

Matt Wolach: 7:35

I totally agree. And I think that's something that a lot of people struggle with you they're a high price point. And they think that they're going to get people to sign up on a webinar and get get closed, or they're a low price point. And they're trying to get people to book a demo, I think it's good to understand what's right for you a webinar can work in both instances, it's just a matter of what's the call to action, what's the next step following. And figuring that out is very important. Because if you do it wrong, you could overplay your hand. And it's not gonna go well.

Melissa Kwan: 8:01

But But I want to touch on that a little bit, right, because I think that salespeople and being a salesperson, I feel like I can say this, is they're so territorial, right? They, they, they, they always think, well, if I don't talk to this, my prospect, they're not going to get it. And I must own this prospect. I can't, I can't give them all this information, I have to gate this information, they can only come to me and then I'll give it to them. But that's not a great buying experience for the consumer that we are today. So even if you're selling higher price point, you can have a digital presentation, a webinar that people can go into on their own, you don't have to share your product at all. Your demo can simply be this is what my company does. Here's how we're different. This is how we serve our customers. Here's a couple testimonials, this is a couple, these are a couple of screenshots of what our product does here, the differentiating factors. If this is interesting for you, book a call on my calendar, you don't have to like people think a demo has to be a product demo. But it doesn't have to be that it's an introduction of why you're different and how you're going to serve them. So I think if even if you're selling enterprise, there is a way to deliver that first demo the first presentation in a way that piques the customer's interests, so that they will book a call with you and not your competitor. And so I would encourage people listening to this to think about how webinars can and you know, how these kinds of self serve demos can help their role in in a much bigger way. Like how can this asset help me cast a much wider net, so that my salespeople can be way more efficient and effective with their time so that the leads that are coming in are actually educated? So that when they come in, they're asking clarifying questions. You're not doing that whole same pitch, you know that that's a whole same pitch for the first 20 minutes and wasting that time that you have that you could be doing it.

Matt Wolach: 9:57

Yeah, I love it. There's a lot of great stuff we can unpack there. and things that I'm really you're preaching to the choir here, Melissa, first of all, with sales reps being territorial, yes, they are. And sometimes as leaders, we kind of feel beholden to them, we have to kind of cater to what the rep wants. But instead, we need to think about what's best for the market, what's best for the target prospect? And how are they going to get, like you said, educated enough so that they feel like this is the answer. This is the tool for them and not something else. I actually today, the YouTube video that we're releasing on our YouTube channel, is talking about how the demo is much more than the demo. And you kind of set it there. A lot of people think, Oh, I just need to like show our product, right? Well, no, there's so many other things that you need to do in that conversation, including discovery, connecting with your buyer, educating them, making sure that they understand you know what you're talking about getting them to follow you and you take charge, so many other things that are actually more impactful than just showing your product that can deliver much better results. And in fact, I have clients and I'm thinking of one of them in particular, Greg, he says his clients are 90% closed before they ever see the product, because he discovers them so well. He understands what they're going through, they understand he gets them, he shares a few stories about how other people have solved the same problems that they are solving using the product. And people just basically need to know that there is something there that works, and then they're good to go. So I totally agree with you. I think it's really powerful when you understand that, that demo piece, the showing of it maybe isn't as big as as what you actually thought. And there's other ways to be able to get people excited and connected with your brand and wanting what you have. Right. Yeah,

Melissa Kwan: 11:39

I mean, I would also say that, like, as we're talking on the topic of more enterprise sales and larger, larger ticket items, when you're putting out that first, like top a funnel piece of content like that demo, you're also giving the prospect an opportunity to disqualify themselves. And that's why I say salespeople can get much better leads, if you're just willing to like, democratize some information and not feel like well, my salespeople have to talk to every single lead. Not every single lead deserves the same attention. Right, it is so disheartening for a salesperson to hop on a call within the first few minutes realizing that's not a great customer. But I still have to go through the next 20 minutes. Because they're on the phone. I can't just hang up. I think we've all been there. So that's where I think an asset like an automated demo automated webinar can help you actually not only cast a such a wider net, but help You disqualify people that actually don't need a conversation. I

Matt Wolach: 12:35

totally agree. I want to ask you, what do you think? And I want to make sure everybody understands, what is the difference between a live webinar and a pre recorded webinar? And should we use both? Should we only use one? How's that work?

Melissa Kwan: 12:46

Yeah, so a live webinar, everybody, you know, uses them in, I think, in some aspects in their business. So it could be, you know, a one to many webinar where you're doing, you know, a training and onboarding, for example, like somebody signs up to your, to your products. There's a demo next Thursday at 11. Some people join, some people don't show up. That's one form of a webinar. But another could just be one on one, like, like, we're talking about one on one demos where I want a demo of your product, let's book a call, let's help I'm not but there's a live video live audio component where you know, you're talking to someone on the other side. webinar automation is where we turn a video, like your your best recorded pitch, and deliver it like a webinar. So people still schedule time, they still get reminders and follow ups. But when they're watching the webinar at that given time, the video is not a live stream, it is actually a video. But for a software like ours, you've also have you still have a chat component where people can ask questions you can I can hop into respond live if I'm there, but I if I'm not there, and I respond later, they actually get an email response, very similar to like any kind of pop up chat bot on any website. But we for us, we actually take that one step further, where you can program in things like, you know, polls, questions, contact forms, calendar links, within the experience itself to make it more engaging and more interactive. And you can use it to deliver more information, but also get more information. So you're actually able to do that discovery, through those interactions that you program without needing to ask questions live and actually being there. So those are the two differentiating factors. And the live of course, only happens once in a while. It's dependent on your schedule, or as an automated webinar can literally happen. 24/7 and, you know, sell your product in your sleep.

Matt Wolach: 14:33

Yeah, I love that. It's so appealing, especially for people who are running small teams and trying to do a bunch of different things at once. But what do you say to people who might feel weird about making a pre recorded webinar look real? And I think it's amazing the technology, people jump in and it feels like they're in a live webinar. There's chat happening, they can chat. What about and by the way, I have one of those so I'm totally okay with it. But why do some people feel weird about it, and what should we say to

Melissa Kwan: 14:59

them. So I think there anyone that knows or have seen Automated Webinars solutions before us or maybe have hopped into one, they may have experienced what I experienced in the past, which is people pretending they're alive when they're not. I think that's where the problem is. And that's why people feel weird about it. It's like, well, I might tricking someone, like, just because the video is recorded doesn't mean you have to trick someone to think it's live. Like, we encourage our customers to tell people this is recorded, but I'm imagining the chat, like people know that at 3am, your timezone that there's not like 300 people joining and you're not on the other side. Right. So we actually, at least in our software, I can't speak for other people. But we actively don't build features that make like that, that create false scarcity. And also like, you know, fake counters, and like fake chats and stuff like that. So we actually want to deliver an experience that is beautiful, that's professional, but also has integrity. So that's what I would say to those people is like, if you have a preconceived notion of what an automated webinar is, it might be because you were in one of those before where you are tricked to believe this is live when it's not, but that's not what the experience we're delivering with E webinar, right? Like, it's almost like, I would say, for people to think like, who might think who might feel weird about it, like, equate this to Netflix, right? People expect to watch videos on demand now, because of how Netflix has actually changed our expectation. This is the one reason why the attendance rate for live webinars is so low, everybody wants to have their webinar at you know, next Tuesday at 11. But I've got other things to do. Right, I'm at work, I have to pick up my kids or you know, maybe I want to sleep in that day, you know, whatever it might be, you can no longer dictate. When someone is free to watch your content. You can only be there when they want it. So, like, just think about how I think consumer experiences and how you want to consume video today. And then give that experience to your prospect in your

Matt Wolach: 17:05

customer. That's great advice. Can you share any tips for creating a successful and engaging webinar?

Melissa Kwan: 17:10

Yeah. I mean, I would say, Ron, I mean, this is kind of counterintuitive to, to what we do. But when you say like tips I want to focus on like, what about automation, because that's where that's where my expertise is. I would say run as many live webinars and demos as it takes for you to for you to figure out what your best pitches before you automate it. Right? Because to sell to someone one on one is actually not that hard. Right? I can react to their objections live in real time. Like, I can see your expression, and I can change my pitch halfway. So that's actually not that hard. Right? When you're automating something, you're actually selling to someone without ever talking to them. You need them to convert and take action on their own. And that's a very different way of coming up with a sales pitch. And in order to come up with that script, you have to know all the potential objections and address them upfront and work them into your scripts. Otherwise, that person's not going to convert, right. So some of my customers will come to me and say, Oh, I ran this a few times people aren't buying this is not for me. But they're not actually looking at the scripts, because they're using the exact same script that they would use in an automated webinar versus a live pitch, which is very different. Right? So my, my best advice as it relates to sales is do as many demos as you can as many sales pitches as you can, until that pitch gets robotic, and then take that and create the best sales pitch ever. And then automate that and let that work for you.

Matt Wolach: 18:53

I mean, it's kind of like we hear about stand up comedians, right stand the best stand up comedians, go to like some tiny little club and practice all their stuff, before they go on their Netflix special, and it's recorded. And that's what's going to be there forever. So it's kind of the same deal, like, get those reps and make sure you understand what people react to what they like what works, what gets people to take action, and then put it together into your final awesome big stand up special, which is your your eat webinar. So I love all this advice. It's fantastic. And I'm actually thinking what we can do to go implement. But I want to ask you with your own company, you've been able to start and grow this company has become successful. Listen, I'm loving your own story. What tips from your own, you know, growing of this company and making these changes that you've talked about? What tips would you give to others who are just getting started and wanting their company to become successful as well?

Melissa Kwan: 19:46

So I'm a bootstrap company. Very, very different than how a VC back company would run. But I would say the best tip that I have is make sure About every decision that you make, you are either doing it to win a customer, or doing it to keep a customer. Because when you're a bootstrap company, you have so little resources. And it feels like you have to do everything and be on every channel and create every piece of content and be on every podcast and, and get feature parity with all your competitors. But only a fraction of those decisions will help you win someone, or keep someone and then add to your revenue. So you can do more things. So I think that's the best advice is like, with every decision that you make, just ask yourself, like, how is this adding to my business? And if it's not, that thing can probably be pushed.

Matt Wolach: 20:42

I love it. fantastic advice. And I think that's something that even myself I get kind of sidetracked on but if we just think about hey, is this going to help us grow as it helps gonna keep people? Amazing advice, Melissa, this has been awesome. And time has gone super fast. I've really enjoyed it. How can our audience learn more about you and your webinar?

Melissa Kwan: 20:59

Yeah. So if you're curious about your webinar on how it can help you or your business, just go to E webinar.com. exactly as it sounds, e webinar.com. There's a demo, of course, self served, delivered through our own product in a very meta way. I managed to chat. So if you have questions, you can type to me there. And I'm also on LinkedIn. So last name is spelt Quan kW. And we'll

Matt Wolach: 21:21

put all that into the show notes. I'm gonna go check that out myself. I might get into your funnel and see how things are running. It looks cool. Well, awesome. Melissa, this has been a lot of fun. Thanks so much for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom. Oh, thanks so much. Absolutely. Everybody out there. Thank you for being here as well. Make sure you're subscribed to the show. Hit that subscribe button right now. Also, we're looking for reviews. If you have a good review, if you're thinking wow, this is great. Go ahead and put that in there. That'll really help us understand we're giving you the right information with awesome great innovators and leaders like Melissa. So thank you for being here, and we'll see you next time. Take care.

Intro/ Outro: 21:54

Thanks for listening to Scale Your SaaS for more help on finding great leads and closing more deals. Go to Mattwolach.com